NEW YORK -- The long looks on players faces and the anger in Deputy Commissioner Adam Silvers voice made it obvious: There was no progress Tuesday in talks to end the NBA lockout. And with less than three weeks until training camps, the latest setback may be a tough one. "I think coming out of today, obviously because of the calendar, we cant come out of here feeling as though training camps and the season is going to start on time at this point," players association president Derek Fisher of the Lakers said. Still divided over the salary cap structure, owners and players decided to pass on talking again Wednesday, and no further meetings are scheduled at this point. "Well, we did not have a great day, I think its fair to say that," Commissioner David Stern said. "On the other hand, we did say that it is our collective task to decide what we want on the one hand on each side, and two, what each side needs if we choose to work ourselves in such a way as to have the season start on time. Thats still our goal." Training camps have been expected to open Oct. 3 and the regular seasons opening night is scheduled for Nov. 1. "Were a bit pessimistic and discouraged at one, the ability to start on time, and were not so sure that there may not be further damages or delay trying to get the season started," union executive director Billy Hunter said. "The owners are not inclined at this stage to move off the position where theyve anchored themselves." Stern and Silver countered that the union insisted the current soft cap system remain exactly as it is before they would agree to discuss anything else. "Frankly, were having trouble understanding why the label of a hard cap is whats breaking apart these negotiations right now, and thats what we discussed for a long time as a committee and then discussed together with the players," said Silver, his voice rising as he spoke. After three meetings among small groups in the last two weeks, full bargaining committees returned to the table Tuesday. They could also have met Wednesday, but Stern said it was best the two sides step away and meet with their own membership groups on Thursday. Though owners are seeking an overhaul of the leagues financial system after saying they lost US$300 million last season and hundreds of millions more in each year of the previous collective bargaining agreement, the salary cap appears to have emerged as the biggest obstacle to a new deal. The current system allows teams to exceed the ceiling through the use of various exceptions if they are willing to pay a luxury tax, giving big-market teams such as the Lakers -- who can take on added payroll -- an advantage over the little guys. But Hunter said a hard cap is "highly untenable," referring to it as a "blood issue" to the players. He added the players were prepared to make a "significant" financial move, but they would only agree to give on dollars if they got a win on the system. "For us, if we give on one, we have to have the other. It cant be just a total capitulation," he said. The league said players wanted owners to guarantee they would concede on the cap as a condition of talking about anything further, but Stern said "all of the owners were completely unified in the view that we needed a system that at the end of the day allowed 30 teams to compete." Added Silver: "That should be the goal of both the owners and the players in this negotiation, not to come in and say that thats off the table, and we wont discuss it and its a precondition of us making an economic move." The recent meetings had been cordial, sparking hopes that progress was being made. Instead, Fisher and Hunter sat in the middle of a row of players who looked dejected, and now may have to wonder if they need to look harder at finding a job overseas. A sign of how the day went: Owners spent the majority of about five hours behind closed doors caucusing among themselves. "We cant find a place with the league and our owners where we can reach a deal sooner rather than later," Fisher said. Besides the cap, the other main issue remains the division of revenues. Players were guaranteed 57 per cent under the old deal and had offered to lower that to 54.3 per cent before owners locked them out on July 1. They say the leagues proposal would have them a percentage in the 40s, and Hunter said if the owners are serious about a hard cap, hell give it to them if players get 65 per cent. Owners are scheduled to meet Thursday in Dallas, and Stern again said there wont be any decisions to cancel training camps at that session. But that would have to come sometime later this month without a deal. The opening of camps was postponed on Sept. 24 during the 1998 lockout, which reduced the season to 50 games. The union will update players Thursday in Las Vegas, and Fisher said he will tell them that "the way it looks right now we may not start on time." He stressed that players are still committed to the process and "not walking away from the table," but Hunter repeated that they "have instructed us that theyre prepared to sit out" rather than accept owners current proposals. Progress should come eventually over finances. Settling the cap issue could take longer. "We know how to negotiate over dollars when the time comes, but they so conditioned any discussion on our acceptance of the status quo, which sees a team like the Lakers with well over $100 million in payroll and Sacramento at 45," Stern said. "Thats not an acceptable alternative for us. That cant be the outcome that we agree to." ray ban lunettes pas cher . -- If this was Aaron Gordons final home game at Arizona, and it almost certainly was, then he went out in style. lunettes soleil ray ban pas cher .C. -- Jordan McRae flew in to throw down a dunk on the break and increase Tennessees big first-half lead, then came down the floor to scream triumphantly toward the orange-clad fans near the court. http://www.raybanlunettepascher.com/[/... .com) - Tonight will go a long way in determining the two wild card spots in the Eastern Conference. [url=http://www.raybanlunettepascher.com/]ray ban pas cher femme . Varlamov was arrested and charged with misdemeanour assault after his girlfriend told police he knocked her down with a kick, stomped on her chest and dragged her by her hair at their apartment on Oct. 30. The girlfriend, Evgeniya Vavrinyukat, also accused him of telling her that he would have beaten her more if they had been in Russia, where he is from, authorities said. [url=http://www.raybanlunettepascher.com/collections-vp-22/ray-ban-wayfarer-ry-2... ban pas cher wayfarer[/url] . -- The Los Angeles Lakers will have to pick on somebody their own size to make it to another Western Conference finals.MONTREAL -- Charles Hamelin is confident that he wont stop at just one gold medal at the world short-track speedskating championships. Three weeks after winning gold in the 1,500 metres at the Sochi Olympics, Hamelin did it again Friday as he cruised to the win in the opening event at the Maurice Richard Arena. The 1,500 used to be the weakest event for the Ste-Julie, Que., skater, but now he seems to own the distance as he easily finished ahead of Han Tianyu of China and bronze medallist Park Se Yeong of South Korea. Earlier this week, the 29-year-old Hamelin announced that he will continue to skate at least four more years until the 2018 Winter Games in South Korea. "In the 1,500 metres, every time I go on the podium now it proves that the work Ive done in the last four years has really paid off," he said. "Its proof that Im improving year after year. "Thats a big part of why I wanted to continue for four more years. You can see Im still strong. After a big event like Sochi, I was able to come back and refocus on what I need to do here. Im ready." Now he hopes to avoid the bad luck that followed his Olympic gold. In Sochi, he inexplicably fell in the heats of both the 500 and 1,000-metre events, dashing his hopes of sweeping the individual distances. He said the world championships are different because, instead of waiting a day or two between skates like at the Olympics, he will be back on the track Saturday for the 500 metres and the mens relay heats and again on Sunday for the 1,000, the 3,000, and, he hopes, the relay final. "Momentum is a big part of it and right now, its on my side," he said. "I had a great race and I know Im stronng in the 500 and 1,000 metres.dddddddddddd" Hamelins goal is to win the overall title, which goes to the skater who does best cumulatively in the individual events. He has come second for that honour twice, but has never won it. He said the first rule is to avoid a disqualification in any race. The large crowd of mostly school children in the stands was worried that might happen when, halfway through the race, Hamelin nearly crashed into a South Korean. He managed to stay upright and then pass Han on the final lap to claim the win. Race officials did not call a foul. "He passed me on the outside and came back really quickly in front of me," said Hamelin. "He was one or two centimetres from hitting my blades. "It could have been a disaster for me, but I was able to control myself and not push too hard or lose too much speed. For him, the race was kind of over. It was a scary moment in the race." Hamelins biggest rival in recent years, five-time overall world champion Victor An of Russia, formerly known as Ahn Hyun-Soo of South Korea, never mounted a challenge and finished fourth. An won three golds and a bronze in Sochi. Wu Dajing of China was fifth ahead of South Koreans Lee Han-Bin and Sin Da Woon. Olivier Jean of Lachenaie, Que., and Charle Cournoyer of Boucherville, Que., were eliminated in the semifinals. South Korea swept the podium in the womens 1,500. Shim Suk Hee finished first ahead of Kim Alang and Park Seung-Hi. Valerie Maltais of La Baie, Que., was caught at the finish line by Park and settled for fourth. Marianne St-Gelais lost in the semifinals while Marie-Eve Drolet was beaten in the heats and was classified 22nd. ' ' '